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In this interview with IMOLEAYO OYEDEYI,  Archbishop of Lagos, Methodist Church Nigeria, Most Rev. Isaac Ayo Olawuyi, comments on NAFDAC’s stance on the ‘miracle water’ saga, criticising those who claim spiritual immunity from regulation. He also addresses the growing discontent among Northern elites towards President Tinubu’s administration and highlights the political undercurrents threatening the country’s unity

The National Agency for Food and Drug Administration and Control recently sealed a ‘miracle water’ factory in Delta State. However, some bishops have criticised the agency, insisting it doesn’t have the right to regulate spiritual products. What is your take on this?

Many people are just being religiously crazy. Whatever people consume and which is meant for the public should get NAFDAC’s attention and approval. There is nothing like miracle water. Even if the water comes from heaven, as long as it has to do with the health and well-being of the general masses, there is nothing miraculous about it.

So, it should have NAFDAC’s confirmation and pass through the agency’s inspection process to ensure that it is safe for public consumption.

There is nothing like miracle water, miracle soap, or miracle anything. It is just nonsense.

As for the bishops that protested, that should be the case only if the water is meant solely for their family members.

There won’t be a problem with that because you can drink whatever you want and harm yourself in any way through it. But if the so-called spiritual item is subject to public use and members of the public are patronising it, I think NAFDAC should not hesitate to inspect the item and where it is being produced to confirm its suitability for public use, even if it is called a miracle something.

Don’t forget that when Jesus Christ healed the lepers, He asked them to go and see the doctors in the temple to confirm that the healing was real.

And they went. And one of them later came back to thank Jesus. So, I don’t see anything wrong with NAFDAC approving any spiritual item.

Even if you conduct a miraculous healing, a doctor should assess the person to confirm that they have truly been healed.

I think people have suspended their reasoning because of religion, and society should help them correct it.

So, are you saying that spiritual items should be subjected to medical tests and scientific verification?

Yes. No miracle produces oil. No miracle produces soap. God cannot come down and produce soap or any other item. They are produced by a company and sanctified in the name of the Lord for use. And then we call it miracle this and miracle that.

But if NAFDAC reaches out to verify the authenticity and safety of the spiritual product, let them go ahead and do it.

Let the factory producing the so-called spiritual item be licensed and the items produced confirmed safe for human consumption. So, those saying such things shouldn’t happen because it is spiritually related are simply talking rubbish.

Let everybody allow NAFDAC to do their job, and after the agency has confirmed it, they can go ahead and call it all kinds of miracle items.

For some time now, key ethnic groups and politicians from the North have been slamming President Bola Tinubu, accusing him of appointing his kinsmen to major security positions. Looking at the appointments made so far by the president, do you think the allegation is correct?

It is definitely not correct, especially given that the president has been accused of running a kind of lopsided government that favours the South over the North. I believe that President Tinubu has been fair enough. As far as his administration is concerned, right from the start, he has carried the Northern people along, and he has been fair in his appointments and the distribution of political positions. Though some people feel that the president has been trying to put Southerners in most positions, thereby marginalising other sections of the country, if you look critically at all the appointments he has made, you will discover that where you find a Southerner, you will definitely see a Northerner.

It’s just that the Northerners want to take all the key positions, just like when Muhammadu Buhari was in power and they held all the important positions in the country, including within the Central Bank of Nigeria. But we should not continue with such a tradition.

We need competence over ethnicity. We need technocrats and capable people who have the knowledge to handle certain things that will help the country. We are all Nigerians, and we should see ourselves as the same.

It will not be helpful if we allow sectionalism to prevail in the country. If a president is there, let him be allowed to use his discretion to appoint people who have the competence to handle certain things, whether they are from the North or the South, as long as those people will work and deliver.

So, I don’t think the claims from our Northern brothers are right. But I am not surprised, because that has always been the case in the country. And that is why most of the country’s past presidents are accused of favouritism and nepotism by people from other regions outside their own.

Remember that when Buhari was there, people said the same thing. I think we all have to accept that only a leader knows the best hands that can help his administration.

Does it then mean that a president can’t truly be fair and unbiased by placing competence over ethnicity in his appointments?

Listening to unnecessary complaints will not help, and a leader should stand his ground to know the best hands he wants to use. So, Tinubu should not listen to whoever is complaining because his appointments have been for the good of the nation. And if the people he has appointed are qualified and competent, I don’t think listening to anybody from any part of the country who tries to criticise and use political gimmicks just to derail his administration is right. So, the president should continue what he is doing and deliver. I think that is the best approach.

Are you saying that the North is not important for the president to consider their complaints?

No, there is no part of the country that is not important because we are all important stakeholders, whether from the North, East, South, or West. So, I think if there is a need to look into certain things where complaints arise, the president should listen, but not to the detriment of the administration, because some people are being orchestrated politically to derail Tinubu’s leadership and make him fail by not delivering on his promises, so they can then come forward to say he is not competent to handle the situations of the country.

If you observe, there has been a gathering of some Northern elders and meetings with other high-profile political personalities. Remember that there was a time when they met with Buhari and other eminent political leaders. Though the outcome of the meetings has not been published, we can conjecture that there is a kind of gang-up. And naturally, such things happen. It happened during Jonathan’s time too. It also occurred during Buhari’s reign. So, it can happen to any president. It is always a political game.

But can Tinubu still win back the aggrieved Northern groups ahead of 2027?

It depends because when it comes to politics, only insiders can understand the way it works. I remember that during the APC presidential primaries in 2023, some core NEF elders stood against him because they wanted another Northerner to come in. It has been observed that in this country, whenever the North is not in power, the people from the region do not usually rest because they believe that they should hold power from time to time.

Even when Goodluck Jonathan was there, they did everything to undermine his administration. They vowed that until they took the power back, the country would not see peace. But I believe this cannot help the country because we have to be together as a nation. So, I think they (Northerners) should accept every leader and his administration. And if there is any grievance, they should come to the roundtable and discuss it. But ahead of 2027, I believe the political issue will resolve itself.

How do you think Tinubu’s camp can counter the various moves by Northern elements ahead of 2027?

Politicians know how they play their games, and if any Northern political heavyweights are doing that, it will be just to threaten Tinubu and make him look their way so as to fall to their whims and caprices.

It is simply a way to tell the president, “We are here, give us attention.” But let them continue to gather. After all, this won’t be the first time they will be doing that against a sitting president. Even politicians in other regions can gather and meet. But when the election comes, they will have a way of playing themselves. So, it is all a political game.

Are you saying the various meetings of the Northern political heavyweights may not necessarily have any effect in 2027?

Yes, it will have no effect at all. This is because these same people will still come back to the president and realign. That is how politicians run their affairs in this country.

We have seen how politicians who vowed never to leave the Peoples Democratic Party later left to join the All Progressives Congress when the party came into power. And if tomorrow, the PDP comes back to the centre, you will see some of the same politicians going back to the party to claim positions. So, it’s part of the political game and doesn’t really portend any threat or serious danger.

Do you think the majority of Nigerians are receiving the dividends of democracy under Tinubu’s administration, considering how difficult things have been since he took office?

 Honestly, I cannot deceive myself, and nobody is going to be deceived. Everybody knows that things are hard, and indeed, things are very hard. But it depends on the situation the current administration found on the ground. There are things that only insiders can understand, which those on the surface level may likely not comprehend. But I know that Tinubu won’t sit back and allow things to get worse. I think he is also struggling and trying to ensure that we overcome the current dilemma and challenges. I believe he means well for the nation, but the situation on the ground has not been helpful. It’s a sorry case.

Do you think there is anything positive that Nigerians can point to in Tinubu’s administration?

When something happens, especially with issues like subsidy removal that has caused the escalation of food prices and other general costs in the country, it may blind people from seeing any good thing in Tinubu’s administration. But when you look at it with a positive eye, there are many good things in the administration. However, the petrol price increase and scarcity of the product have overshadowed the other good things that Tinubu’s administration has achieved.

You said the administration has achieved many good things since coming into power. Can you mention some of them?

Well, we can say that despite the crisis here and there, the president has been able to maintain peace in the country. As a leader, it becomes a great achievement when your country is at peace despite far-reaching crises. But to the man on the street, it will be very hard to point to any tangible achievement of the administration as of now because what ordinary Nigerians want is food, shelter, good roads, and quality education.

The subsidy removal and high costs of things have taken away all the benefits that the man on the street can enjoy in our democracy. If you are talking about policies that are good in the administration, but none of them produce the necessities I’ve mentioned, nobody will see any good thing to point to in the government’s performance. But there are still some good things. The government has tried to provide some items to cushion the effects of its policies, but some people have not helped the matter. The Federal Government can release things for distribution, but the items often don’t reach the right people. Things like that have not helped the situation.

You mentioned peace as a positive of this administration, but killings and kidnappings continue in various parts of the country. Just this week, 37 victims of Boko Haram were given a mass burial in Yobe State. Can a country experiencing such incidents really be called peaceful?

Yes. The fact is these pockets of incidents happen all over the world, and they’ve been happening long before Tinubu’s administration. Remember the Chibok girls’ abduction and other high-profile kidnap cases. You cannot completely eradicate such occurrences, as they happen everywhere. Killings happen in the United States, the United Kingdom, and other places. So, we can say Tinubu is creating an environment of peace by managing the current situation well so that the country doesn’t fall apart. You know, there are many regional agitations. People want to dismember the country and go their separate ways. But the president has been able to manage these agitations effectively, which is why we are experiencing at least a measure of peace in the country.

The NNPCL recently increased the pump price of fuel. Don’t you think it will worsen the hardship in the country?

I agree with you. I read it in the news, and I felt so bad. I recently went to Oyo State and bought fuel at N950 per litre. It made me feel terrible. Then, as I was travelling back the following day, I heard in the news that the price of fuel might go beyond N1,000 per litre, and I felt even weaker. Something has to be done quickly to stop this; otherwise, it will become unbearable for the people.

In this interview with IMOLEAYO OYEDEYI,  Archbishop of Lagos, Methodist Church Nigeria, Most Rev. Isaac Ayo Olawuyi, comments on NAFDAC’s stance on the ‘miracle water’ saga, criticising those who claim spiritual immunity from regulation. He also addresses the growing discontent among Northern elites towards President Tinubu’s administration and highlights the political undercurrents threatening the country’s unity

The National Agency for Food and Drug Administration and Control recently sealed a ‘miracle water’ factory in Delta State. However, some bishops have criticised the agency, insisting it doesn’t have the right to regulate spiritual products. What is your take on this?

Many people are just being religiously crazy. Whatever people consume and which is meant for the public should get NAFDAC’s attention and approval. There is nothing like miracle water. Even if the water comes from heaven, as long as it has to do with the health and well-being of the general masses, there is nothing miraculous about it.

So, it should have NAFDAC’s confirmation and pass through the agency’s inspection process to ensure that it is safe for public consumption.

There is nothing like miracle water, miracle soap, or miracle anything. It is just nonsense.

As for the bishops that protested, that should be the case only if the water is meant solely for their family members.

There won’t be a problem with that because you can drink whatever you want and harm yourself in any way through it. But if the so-called spiritual item is subject to public use and members of the public are patronising it, I think NAFDAC should not hesitate to inspect the item and where it is being produced to confirm its suitability for public use, even if it is called a miracle something.

Don’t forget that when Jesus Christ healed the lepers, He asked them to go and see the doctors in the temple to confirm that the healing was real.

And they went. And one of them later came back to thank Jesus. So, I don’t see anything wrong with NAFDAC approving any spiritual item.

Even if you conduct a miraculous healing, a doctor should assess the person to confirm that they have truly been healed.

I think people have suspended their reasoning because of religion, and society should help them correct it.

So, are you saying that spiritual items should be subjected to medical tests and scientific verification?

Yes. No miracle produces oil. No miracle produces soap. God cannot come down and produce soap or any other item. They are produced by a company and sanctified in the name of the Lord for use. And then we call it miracle this and miracle that.

But if NAFDAC reaches out to verify the authenticity and safety of the spiritual product, let them go ahead and do it.

Let the factory producing the so-called spiritual item be licensed and the items produced confirmed safe for human consumption. So, those saying such things shouldn’t happen because it is spiritually related are simply talking rubbish.

Let everybody allow NAFDAC to do their job, and after the agency has confirmed it, they can go ahead and call it all kinds of miracle items.

For some time now, key ethnic groups and politicians from the North have been slamming President Bola Tinubu, accusing him of appointing his kinsmen to major security positions. Looking at the appointments made so far by the president, do you think the allegation is correct?

It is definitely not correct, especially given that the president has been accused of running a kind of lopsided government that favours the South over the North. I believe that President Tinubu has been fair enough. As far as his administration is concerned, right from the start, he has carried the Northern people along, and he has been fair in his appointments and the distribution of political positions. Though some people feel that the president has been trying to put Southerners in most positions, thereby marginalising other sections of the country, if you look critically at all the appointments he has made, you will discover that where you find a Southerner, you will definitely see a Northerner.

It’s just that the Northerners want to take all the key positions, just like when Muhammadu Buhari was in power and they held all the important positions in the country, including within the Central Bank of Nigeria. But we should not continue with such a tradition.

We need competence over ethnicity. We need technocrats and capable people who have the knowledge to handle certain things that will help the country. We are all Nigerians, and we should see ourselves as the same.

It will not be helpful if we allow sectionalism to prevail in the country. If a president is there, let him be allowed to use his discretion to appoint people who have the competence to handle certain things, whether they are from the North or the South, as long as those people will work and deliver.

So, I don’t think the claims from our Northern brothers are right. But I am not surprised, because that has always been the case in the country. And that is why most of the country’s past presidents are accused of favouritism and nepotism by people from other regions outside their own.

Remember that when Buhari was there, people said the same thing. I think we all have to accept that only a leader knows the best hands that can help his administration.

Does it then mean that a president can’t truly be fair and unbiased by placing competence over ethnicity in his appointments?

Listening to unnecessary complaints will not help, and a leader should stand his ground to know the best hands he wants to use. So, Tinubu should not listen to whoever is complaining because his appointments have been for the good of the nation. And if the people he has appointed are qualified and competent, I don’t think listening to anybody from any part of the country who tries to criticise and use political gimmicks just to derail his administration is right. So, the president should continue what he is doing and deliver. I think that is the best approach.

Are you saying that the North is not important for the president to consider their complaints?

No, there is no part of the country that is not important because we are all important stakeholders, whether from the North, East, South, or West. So, I think if there is a need to look into certain things where complaints arise, the president should listen, but not to the detriment of the administration, because some people are being orchestrated politically to derail Tinubu’s leadership and make him fail by not delivering on his promises, so they can then come forward to say he is not competent to handle the situations of the country.

If you observe, there has been a gathering of some Northern elders and meetings with other high-profile political personalities. Remember that there was a time when they met with Buhari and other eminent political leaders. Though the outcome of the meetings has not been published, we can conjecture that there is a kind of gang-up. And naturally, such things happen. It happened during Jonathan’s time too. It also occurred during Buhari’s reign. So, it can happen to any president. It is always a political game.

But can Tinubu still win back the aggrieved Northern groups ahead of 2027?

It depends because when it comes to politics, only insiders can understand the way it works. I remember that during the APC presidential primaries in 2023, some core NEF elders stood against him because they wanted another Northerner to come in. It has been observed that in this country, whenever the North is not in power, the people from the region do not usually rest because they believe that they should hold power from time to time.

Even when Goodluck Jonathan was there, they did everything to undermine his administration. They vowed that until they took the power back, the country would not see peace. But I believe this cannot help the country because we have to be together as a nation. So, I think they (Northerners) should accept every leader and his administration. And if there is any grievance, they should come to the roundtable and discuss it. But ahead of 2027, I believe the political issue will resolve itself.

How do you think Tinubu’s camp can counter the various moves by Northern elements ahead of 2027?

Politicians know how they play their games, and if any Northern political heavyweights are doing that, it will be just to threaten Tinubu and make him look their way so as to fall to their whims and caprices.

It is simply a way to tell the president, “We are here, give us attention.” But let them continue to gather. After all, this won’t be the first time they will be doing that against a sitting president. Even politicians in other regions can gather and meet. But when the election comes, they will have a way of playing themselves. So, it is all a political game.

Are you saying the various meetings of the Northern political heavyweights may not necessarily have any effect in 2027?

Yes, it will have no effect at all. This is because these same people will still come back to the president and realign. That is how politicians run their affairs in this country.

We have seen how politicians who vowed never to leave the Peoples Democratic Party later left to join the All Progressives Congress when the party came into power. And if tomorrow, the PDP comes back to the centre, you will see some of the same politicians going back to the party to claim positions. So, it’s part of the political game and doesn’t really portend any threat or serious danger.

Do you think the majority of Nigerians are receiving the dividends of democracy under Tinubu’s administration, considering how difficult things have been since he took office?

 Honestly, I cannot deceive myself, and nobody is going to be deceived. Everybody knows that things are hard, and indeed, things are very hard. But it depends on the situation the current administration found on the ground. There are things that only insiders can understand, which those on the surface level may likely not comprehend. But I know that Tinubu won’t sit back and allow things to get worse. I think he is also struggling and trying to ensure that we overcome the current dilemma and challenges. I believe he means well for the nation, but the situation on the ground has not been helpful. It’s a sorry case.

Do you think there is anything positive that Nigerians can point to in Tinubu’s administration?

When something happens, especially with issues like subsidy removal that has caused the escalation of food prices and other general costs in the country, it may blind people from seeing any good thing in Tinubu’s administration. But when you look at it with a positive eye, there are many good things in the administration. However, the petrol price increase and scarcity of the product have overshadowed the other good things that Tinubu’s administration has achieved.

You said the administration has achieved many good things since coming into power. Can you mention some of them?

Well, we can say that despite the crisis here and there, the president has been able to maintain peace in the country. As a leader, it becomes a great achievement when your country is at peace despite far-reaching crises. But to the man on the street, it will be very hard to point to any tangible achievement of the administration as of now because what ordinary Nigerians want is food, shelter, good roads, and quality education.

The subsidy removal and high costs of things have taken away all the benefits that the man on the street can enjoy in our democracy. If you are talking about policies that are good in the administration, but none of them produce the necessities I’ve mentioned, nobody will see any good thing to point to in the government’s performance. But there are still some good things. The government has tried to provide some items to cushion the effects of its policies, but some people have not helped the matter. The Federal Government can release things for distribution, but the items often don’t reach the right people. Things like that have not helped the situation.

You mentioned peace as a positive of this administration, but killings and kidnappings continue in various parts of the country. Just this week, 37 victims of Boko Haram were given a mass burial in Yobe State. Can a country experiencing such incidents really be called peaceful?

Yes. The fact is these pockets of incidents happen all over the world, and they’ve been happening long before Tinubu’s administration. Remember the Chibok girls’ abduction and other high-profile kidnap cases. You cannot completely eradicate such occurrences, as they happen everywhere. Killings happen in the United States, the United Kingdom, and other places. So, we can say Tinubu is creating an environment of peace by managing the current situation well so that the country doesn’t fall apart. You know, there are many regional agitations. People want to dismember the country and go their separate ways. But the president has been able to manage these agitations effectively, which is why we are experiencing at least a measure of peace in the country.

The NNPCL recently increased the pump price of fuel. Don’t you think it will worsen the hardship in the country?

I agree with you. I read it in the news, and I felt so bad. I recently went to Oyo State and bought fuel at N950 per litre. It made me feel terrible. Then, as I was travelling back the following day, I heard in the news that the price of fuel might go beyond N1,000 per litre, and I felt even weaker. Something has to be done quickly to stop this; otherwise, it will become unbearable for the people.